To save time, let's just summarize the article.

What To Expect: a 20th consecutive losing season

What Not To Expect: a repeat of last year's "glimmer of hope" first half success

But general manager Neal Huntington doesn’t generally throw money around easily, and the fact that Tabata was given nearly $15 million guaranteed shows they believe in the type of player he can be

Uh...Joe... that 'nearly $15 million' was over 6 years.

The fact is that after drafting players for four years under Huntington, the Pirates still had to go out and buy retread players for third base, shortstop and catcher this season. That does not bode well.

While other Central teams are developing a Braun, Votto, Fielder and Pujols, we're still waiting for our first super star. (McCutchen, good as he is, is not a clean up hitter who can carry a team).

Since the minor league system is bare with the exception of a few big name/big contract hopefuls, this is likely to be another ho hum season of losing ninety some games.

So enjoy the hot dog races and the big scoreboard cartoons folks because on most nights, our Pirates are going to be walking their own plank until somebody that knows what they're doing can get some talent in here.

If Giardina had predicted 90 wins and a breakout year for Alvarez, would it have changed anyone`s mind? No, you`d be laughing at him.

If you`re a Pirate fan, hope for miracles; hope for the best. If you`re a basher who gets more pleasure out of losses than wins - - so that you can gloat "I told you so" - - do what makes you happy. Why rehash the same dam thing over and over again.

Well if nothing else The Pirates have Eric Bedard. He was terrific in the opener. Kept The Bucs in the game against arguably the best pitcher in baseball. He appears to be healthy and back to top of the rotation form.

Mr Giardina seems to think he'll be trade bait at the deadline this year if he can stay healthy. If so, maybe he'll bring that middle of the order power bat that The Pirates so desperately need.

I wish NH had a better track record in talent evaluation when it comes to obtaining prospects in trades. Bedard may end up being one of the best trading chips The Bucs have had and this organization can ill afford another Andy Laroche-type return.

Wow, this article said nothing that anyone that has been paying attention didn't already know,

"Mr Giardina seems to think he'll be trade bait at the deadline this year if he can stay healthy. If so, maybe he'll bring that middle of the order power bat that The Pirates so desperately need."

The problem is, a contender is not going to trade their clean up hitter. So the power bat would have to be a AAA guy who is being blocked by a superstar on the major league level. It's possible, but not likely. I guess that's why they're the Pirates.

Beat 'em Bucs!

"DO EXPECT to see Andrew McCutchen bounce back from a forgettable second half of 2011." While Cutch is a good player, he will not be a great player until the weight of this team is taken off his shoulders. Having no legit #4 hitter (Walker, as good as he is, does not belong there) hurts the little talent they have.

...
@ Scooter: Ah yes! The Contract!! Tabata's contract is so monumentally bad, that Jose's management team told him if he signed it, they would no longer represent him. He signed it. They no longer represent him.

Good points about Bedard being trade bait (and he did pitch a nice game Thursday) if he continues to perform. But the likely scenario (a trade to a contender in need of SP) is not going to result in the contender giving up their middle of the order power bat. That would be almost senseless on the contender's part.

I think Hanrahan will go first, but that contract that Tabata signed has me thinking that HE could go first. His contract is so ownership-friendly that there is almost no risk to someone who trades for him - even if he doesn't work out.

Funny that Giardina did not even mention St AJ...the pitcher who is so good, the Yanks paid us to take him.

Jose

I think Giardina did a pretty decent job breaking down the 2012 Pirates...if anything he might be a bit optimistic....or probably just not stating the real pessimism.

I also believe Bedard will be on a fast track out of town at the trade deadline IF HE IS SUCCESSFUL AND STAYS HEALTHY. And that is one of the fundamental issues with this cheapskate franchise. When will this team start looking to keep its veteran talent instead of jettisoning them for whatever "prospects" they can get while ensuring that the payroll remains at less than half of the MLB average?

Prediction is simple

Pain and Suffering for the fans....

LOTS of profit for the carpet bagging owner.

....and so it goes.....

The 9 Most Humiliating Losing Streaks in Sports

http://www.totalprosports.com/...in-sports/

What has Tabata done that would justify a better or more "player-friendly" contract? At this point he is a young player with potential. I hope he fulfills it. If he does, then it`s time to reward him. Seems to me that his "management team" had an over-inflated view of his value.

I hate to say it as much as I love the Pirates but I see no light at the end of the tunnel. The PBC should be ashamed that after four years of this GM they are still devoid of any substantial power hitters. Thats incredible to me. I hope Pedro pans out but boy thats just wishful thinking. He hasn't shown anything in the last year to make me think that there's a chance he will come around. We're in for a long, long year.......

Jose - when the Nutting's stumble into July with a losing record, I can easily see Hanrahan, Bedard, and Burnett dealt for prospects. Perhaps even Barajas,Barmes, and McLouth....though I'm not sure they are worth anything.

Even though we are "beyond the acquisition stage" according to the Best Management Team in Baseball.

It will be interesting to see how they spin it.

Hanrahan is probably the most likely Pirate to be dealt first in my opinion.

Another thing that starting to bug me? I like Presley, Tabata, and even what I saw of Marte in the spring. But to me they are all virtually the same player as far as a lack of power goes. Maybe one will develop further but after Cutch, and maybe Jones with 500 ABs, no one on this roster can hit 30 Hrs. They need a corner outfielder with more pop...Among everything else I know.

Dutchman, you hit the nail right on the head. If you look at AA and AAA right now, can anyone say for certainty there is a future impact major league bat anywhere? Im not talking about Marte. Im talking about a guy capable of 100 RBIs...The only guy in the system may be Josh Bell...Frank and Neil might be gone by the time he comes around.

Considering that the Pirates played Halladay and the Phillies on Thursday I thought the team looked pretty good.

McCutchen hit a shot with runners on and no out in the 1st inning. Unfortunately it was right at Rollins at SS, and the way McCutchen gets doubled up happened. Two feet further to the left and the Pirates are 1st and 3rd and nobody out with a run scored.

Then Walkers deep fly to left scores another run.

Also, Barmes (and some one else too) had balls caught right at the 383 foot sign in left. Different park, different result.

It was what it was, but a good start for Beddard was a nice plus.

Plenty of room for optimism.

Although I understand the Halladay excuse i dont buy it...Those are the pitchers you have to beat if you want to get into that next level. Too many automatic outs in the lineup, SteelerMark. For any opposing pitcher.

DO EXPECT- If the Pirates win 70 games for the naysayers to say "I told you so!"
If the Pirates win 81 games for the naysayers to say ".500 is not the goal"
If the Pirates win 90 games for the naysayers to say "it's only one season and it won't last."
DO NOT EXPECT- The league to rectify the horrible play-off format and the interleague competition that overall has been underwhelming.

...
@ lambert: The contract Tabata signed has been held up for ridicule across the board as Tabata signed away any chance he had to profit if he develops via arb. He basically sold himself out.

I mean realistically he is not going to be worthy of a Cutch-type buyout. Neither the talent nor the results have been there, but he basically signed away any chance he has of getting a larger contract because he has signed away the next 6 years for very little.

There is a difference between "sharing the risk" and giving away the store. Tabata gave away the store.

Jose

...
Actually that would be the next five years for Tabata as last year was year one. Here are the details (note that our starting RF will make less in 2011/12 combined than our 4th OF N McLouth will this season alone):
2011: $500,000
2012: $750,000
2013: $ 1 million
2014: $3 million
2015: $4 million
2016: $4.5 million

There was a $1 million signing bonus as well.

Jose

Joe has done a good job of summarizing the way many of us feel. I'd say, spot on dude.

Bedard looked good, that's obvious. I saw this guy in 2001 when he was pitching in the Carolina League in Frederick and he was an obvious future Oriole at that time.

That batting lineup, man. After the 5 slot it isn't even worth having them step to the plate and swing. They're better off watching every pitch and hoping for a walk, or at least driving up the pitch count.

I'd have liked to have seen the Pirates be more disruptive in their approach to Halladay on opening day, instead of walking up to the plate like lambs to the slaughter. Try to bunt your way on, step out on Halladay a few times, disrupt his rhythm a bit. As it was, they just walked up there and allowed him to stay in his rhythm while they flailed away. I realize Halladay is great, but he's especially great if you allow him to pitch with his feet up and the TV remote in his hand.

Although I predicted Kevin c would be dealt first, I now think they pull an early deal (ala mclouth I 299 and deal bedard, if healthy, early for a bat. This team is so lacking of offense that they may not have a choice.

Dam I pad, 2009 I meant

Tabata is prone to poor decisions, both in his personal life, as well as his professional life.

Honestly after Cutch and maybe Pedro Cerrano, anybody on that team is likely to be traded, especially if this goes bad quickly. Considering the tough early schedule and some of the pithcing staff's injury history, its possible.

A lot of folks are critical of the deal Tabata made, but I can't fault a guy for erring on the side of lifelong security. He has insured that he and his family will have it made for life. If he turns out to be successful he will surely cash in on his next deal; if he flames out and crashes he'll have some great memories and a bunch of cash to cushion the fall.

Retire#21, I've heard a lot of folks ridicule the Pirates 6-8 spots in the batting order, and they do stink, but I think the 4-5 spots are actually much poorer relative to what other teams have in those positions, and much more critical to the team's possible success.
Either way, it's clear that once you get past the first three batters this lineup is far below mediocre.

Re: Tabata. He's set for life if manages his money. Maybe he knows he really is 28 and injury-prone? If that's the case, he's brilliant. Regardless, the minute he signed that contract he became compelling trade bait. His $15 million is guaranteed regardless.

I can see the guy developing into an Edgar Alfonzo type hitter. He can spray, do the hit-and-run, and likely add some power. But he certainly didn't honor his hero with that throw home on Thursday.

Re: Bedard - it wasn't just that he kept the Phils to a run, it was how he did it. The guy has an arsenal and can actually hit spots. Which means he'll usually be in a favorable pitcher's count. We haven't seen much of that around here lately, so if he does stay healthy, there's as much likelihood of an extension as a trade, IMO. Who would take his place in 2013? Nobody. If Burnett regroups and has a respectable year, I think he's more likely to go. Older and more innings pitched wear and tear. Almost the same price.

written by bpn8pitt, April 07, 2012 - 08:33 AM

Although I understand the Halladay excuse i dont buy it...Those are the pitchers you have to beat if you want to get into that next level.

Should Karstens best Lee today with McGehee and Hague in the lineup, it'll immediately be labeled a fluke.

Also regarding AJ, granted it's just a minor league tune-up, but he looked pretty good. And he's having fun. Might be a mirage, but I'm somewhat optimistic.

Which is not the same as suggesting the Bucs are contenders. Just that it probably won't be the starting pitching that fails this year.

written by bpn8pitt, April 07, 2012 - 08:33 AM


Although I understand the Halladay excuse i dont buy it...Those are the pitchers you have to beat if you want to get into that next level. Too many automatic outs in the lineup, SteelerMark. For any opposing pitcher.
+0



I understand your point, but for The Pirates the 'next level' is not even close to being able to beat the likes of Halladay on a consistent basis. The Pirate's realistic next level would be to finish at or slightly above .500.

With current ownership spending levels and the lack of numerous high end minor league prospects close to Major League ready I would expect small incremental forward steps to be the most optimistic likely scenario.

The point with Bedard (and possibly Hanrahan) being trading chips isn't that they could bring a Major League middle of the order bat. They won't. But The Bucs need to make sure that whatever 'prospects' these guys bring are near certain 'can't miss' impact bat types or else we need to keep Bedard and Hanrahan as real 'pieces' of the future. Because they are legitimately good players.

Bedard and Hanrahan can be expendable because it appears that pitching is what The Pirates have in depth in their system. What they don't have are power bats close to being ready. That doesn't mean that we take long shot gambles with them in trades, but NH desperately needs to use this talent leverage to advantage.

Bob....this comment is for you.

I agree with most of it, esp the part on Alvarez. However, I disagree with most of the naysayers about Kartstens. I think he'll be a consistently good pitcher.

I hope we don't have to trade Bedard, Hanny, et al, but our April schedule is brutal and we might have trouble hitting 10 wins.

Lee Foo

.

..

*t seems every year the Pirates have a guy on the pitching staff, usually a starter, who is the season's "pitcher in the barrel", a pitcher who's results fall far beneath the quality of their performances. Last year Maholm was that guy; 6-14 despite an ERA of 3.66. Not that he had a great year, but he certainly pitched better than the W-L record would indicate.
Is this Bedard's year in the Pirate barrel, and if so how will he handle it?

catdaddy

I really dont disagree with what you said. Im just not one of those 81-81 or 82-80 guys. Your dead on with the bat issue, I mentioned that earlier...To be honest, 2012 is gonna be no different than the last 20. They are going to play well at times, stink a lot more. Probably deal a few guys at the end of july and finish around 70 wins. They will draft a kid in June, and we will all get our hopes up with him...Hopefully some young guys pan out, Burnett and Bedard make about 60 starts between them. They finish with 80 or so wins and Nutting dumps about 40 million into payroll over the next two years. I dont think that will happen. To be honest I think Frank and Neil are gone mid 2013. But hey its spring. Stay classy, Pittsburgh.

Speaking of Tabata, does anyone besides me think Greg Brown sounds like a total a$$ the unique way he pronounces Tabata?

Anyone catch Stetson Allie's pitching line last night for the WV Power?

H-I-S-T-O-R-I-C.

0.1 IP
0 Hits
2 Runs, both earned
4 BB's
1 K
3 Wild Pitches

then pulled.



He also hit a batter. -- Bob Smizik

...

To be honest I think Frank and Neil are gone mid 2013. But hey its spring. Stay classy, Pittsburgh.

If that would happen, the Nutting regime would have to pay them anyway. That just isn't going to happen.

This is the team of secret contract extensions, and the team that re-signed JR.

Max still maintains there is precious little evidence the Nutting regime is doing anything to win on the field.

I just dont think its possible to build a team through the draft and deal impending FAs in July, for middle of the road prospects...You identify the good players you DID develop sign them to long term deals. You make some smart trades, in the offseason and add a few major free agent additions over a period of a few years along with a few under the radar quality bargain signings...To me thats how other teams are doing it. Look at the Reds and Marlins.

The Philadelphia media is talking about WHY Hurdle pitched to Ruiz with the 8th and 9th batter coming up. With one out, a man on 3rd, in a tie game, walking him (he has been one of the Phils hottest hitters) makes an awful lot of sence.

Bob, I know it's after the fact but don't you think it was worthly of comment?



If memory server, Ruiz hit a fly ball to short right field. I'm not going to jump on Hurdle because Tabata made a bad throw to the plate. -- Bob Smizik

Either way, it's clear that once you get past the first three batters this lineup is far below mediocre.

The first two batters in this lineup are mediocre as well and when we last saw number three he was heading towards mediocre as well.

One last thing...When healthy, Bedard's a good picher. But that is a big asterik next to his name. If he pitches well this year, hey good for him and good for the Pirates. But if he is still healthy in July he's going to be traded. And I think he's only made more than 25 starts once in his career. I wouldnt give that guy a long term deal...I guess my point is, Bedard is not a long term solution for Pirates. Hope the guy pitches well and all but he's the usual one step forward, two step back approach...Just think some of you are over valuing him, thats all.

KevMo, agreed about the 4 and 5 hitters relative to their peers around MLB. But, relative to whatever else is in that lineup from the 6 through 9 slots, Walker and (presumably) Jones offer the last vestiges of hope for a hit with men on base. We all agree that Walker is not a 4 hitter, heck, if you asked him he'd say the same, but on the Pirates, it seems to be where they need him most. I can't fault Walker for the fact that Jones can't hit lefties, and Alvarez....well, at least right now...just can't hit.

...

The Philadelphia media is talking about WHY Hurdle pitched to Ruiz with the 8th and 9th batter coming up. With one out, a man on 3rd, in a tie game, walking him (he has been one of the Phils hottest hitters) makes an awful lot of sence.

Are you implying that managers win games?

Nutting, re that special outing in WV, looks like a Nuke Laloosh effort.

Meathead, you are right, the 1-2 hitters are mediocre, but that is a relative upgrade over the 4-8.

Retire#21, you are right about Walker and Jones at least being legitimate major league hitters, but what is more damning, Barnes hitting eighth or Walker hitting fourth?

written by bpn8pitt, April 07, 2012 - 10:08 AM
One last thing...When healthy, Bedard's a good picher. But that is a big asterik next to his name. If he pitches well this year, hey good for him and good for the Pirates. But if he is still healthy in July he's going to be traded. And I think he's only made more than 25 starts once in his career. I wouldnt give that guy a long term deal...I guess my point is, Bedard is not a long term solution for Pirates. Hope the guy pitches well and all but he's the usual one step forward, two step back approach...Just think some of you are over valuing him, thats all.

3x > 25 starts, although he's only gone 180+ innings twice. Yes, it's a risk, but Cole is a longshot to make 2013 roster and Taillon has almost no chance. So if Bedard does well, there's nobody to replace him in the rotation for 2013, thus, why trade him if the Bucs are no longer in prospect acquisition mode.

Besides, there are no big bat acquisitions to be made at the July deadline. If that's going to happen, it'll happen in the offseason. Like it or not, we're living and dying with the mess that's out there now.

From everything I've seen, the pitching prospects who've made it to AAA have turned out to be pretty mediocre or worse. There is not a single ML-ready starter at Indy. A couple of middle relievers, maybe.

If Bedard gets hurt, point is moot anyway. Let's wait and see.

Bob talking out his Nutting....again...

"We're moving from the phase of building and having hope, to having faith and belief that we're going to perform," Nutting said. "I believe we're going to take another step forward. We've shown that we can succeed in the National League Central. We showed that through the first 100 games last season."

"We do have a very tough schedule starting off," Nutting said, "and we recognize that. But we're a stronger team, in every area. We've matured as a team."

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb....t&c_id=pit

written by bpn8pitt, April 07, 2012 - 10:08 AM

One last thing...When healthy, Bedard's a good picher. ...Just think some of you are over valuing him, thats all.

Yeah, I probably am over valuing him. It was just so nice to see a high quality Major League starting pitcher on the mound for The Pirates on Thursday. Not some guy with 'potential'. A guy who has realized that potential. Refreshing and it definitely gave me at least a temporary case of optimism that I'm having a hard time controlling

Many wondered why Alvarez was a lock to make the major league roster. The reason? Look at his salary ($2.2 million). He gets that whether he plays at Pittsburgh or Indy. It's roughly twice as much as two prior first round pics combined, both of whom have been much more productive.

I actually agree with the move, by the way, for baseball reasons, but I think the salary played a bigger role. There's no way they FO would pay that much for someone in the minors.

Speaking of Tabata, does anyone besides me think Greg Brown sounds like a total a$$ the unique way he pronounces Tabata?

@Nuho: I think you could have stopped your sentence after "greg bown sounds like a total a$$"

(sorry, that was too easy to pass up)

Rich W

Bedard is 34, brother. Hasnt pitched 180 innings since 2007. But I understand your point. People feel the same way about Burnett. Basically, they will take their chances with Burnett and Bedard over Brad Lincoln. Honestly I would too.

The Pirates lost a lot of games last year, like they did Friday. They got a great pitching performance and two hits. Bedard spent his entire career in the AL with the DH. Burnett spent the last 6 years in the AL, 3 with the Yanks who have never had a problem scoring...These 1-0 , 2-1 losses are going to wear on those guys...I hope they pitch well, and maybe they will stay. But they are both in their mid 30s, arent gonna deal well with the low scoring losing, and to me arent long term solutions.

heartbeatsings

I dont think it had anything to do with money bro...A week or so ago, I was one of those people that thought Pedro should go to Indy to find his stroke...But then I realized, when he comes back from Indy he is still going to see MLB curveball after MLB curveball. One way or the other he still has to prove he can hit it...I think they brought him up to fast, like they did with Jose Guillen.

written by bpn8pitt, April 07, 2012 - 01:42 PM
Basically, they will take their chances with Burnett and Bedard over Brad Lincoln. Honestly I would too.
...
But they are both in their mid 30s, arent gonna deal well with the low scoring losing, and to me arent long term solutions.

I never suggested "long term solution". I did mention an extension, which to me could be 2-3 years until Cole/Taillon are established. And that wouldn't stop a trade from happening anyway.

My point was many posters seem to think Bedard is gone by July if he's doing well. To me that would be silly because you're not going to get another front line pitcher for him (not even a top AA pitching prospect) and there's nothing behind him in the system.

If you let Bedard go while he's having a good season, you'd have to assume an equal or better FA signing in the offseason - and with stiffs guys like Edwin Jackson making $11 million/year, why on earth wouldn't you negotiate with Bedard (or Burnett if he ends up being even better) instead of going that route?

An Erik Bedard or an AJ Burnett pitching to their potential is a world of difference from a Maholm pitching to his.

I understand. But look real hard at Burnett and Bedard. Not at potential. Look at how they both pitched the last three seasons. Look at their age. If they pitch well this year, they are going to want something similar to Jackson or better, at least 8-10 million a year, from somewhere to 3 to 5 years...I know they had close calls with both De La Rosa (who blew out his arm later) and Jackson this offseason. But the Pirates have never handed out that kind of contract. I doubt they could do two...And I just think those guys are past their prime or entering it. Those contracts would be dangerous for anyclub outside of New York, Chicago, or LA...Hey, who knows. Maybe they give of us 60 starts this year and the Pirates win 80 games or more. Who knows? I just think they are stopgaps. Better than Lincoln, yes. But Im not giving them a long term deal, on the other side of 35 just to tread water until the young studs get here.

written by bpn8pitt, April 07, 2012 - 02:21 PM
Look at their age.

With all the time Bedard spent on the DL, maybe his arm is only 31

ha, maybe...You know just thinking about 2012, it would be great if they got 60 starts out of Bedard and Burnett. Then if Pedro got straightened out they could hang around. Their division sucks...its what makes me so mad about this team. At times over the last 10 or 12 years, 90 wins would get you in the playoffs in the Central.

Expect
1) Terrible hitting. Even worse than expectd.
2) Better than expected pitching especially in the first half. Let's hope it doesnt get demoralized and fall apart again.
3)Nutting make money.
4) Pirates are still an embarrassment.
5) There are still sheep in the Pirates fandom.
6) For reasons hard to fathom, the Pirates section in the PG+ blog will still be more active than the Penguins and Steelers combined.

EXPECT: Many losses.
EXPECT: Much profit for Nutting.
EXPECT: Posters to defend the Regime like Fort Knox.

DON'T EXPECT: Many wins.
DON'T EXPECT: Corndogs on the menu. Damn Nutting!